tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post622736153185744392..comments2023-10-14T09:40:06.690-05:00Comments on Jean Kazez: Scorning into SilenceJean Kazezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-18330141394894660202011-06-07T18:46:42.441-05:002011-06-07T18:46:42.441-05:00Ophelia;
I think that Jean made it clear that thi...Ophelia;<br /><br />I think that Jean made it clear that this is not the space for us to air the differences between us. <br /><br />If you want to argue with me,<br />write me. Here's my email. <br /><br />vivepablo@gmail.coms. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-54244382345077294022011-06-07T17:25:44.386-05:002011-06-07T17:25:44.386-05:00One thing, in reply to amos to me on June 4. (Jean...One thing, in reply to amos to me on June 4. (Jean, amos is saying this stuff here, and in response to your post, so I don't think it's OT to reply to it here.)<br /><br />amos, you said: <br /><br />"You broke the truce. I've never singled you out or mentioned your name in an unfavorable way since the agreement."<br /><br />http://kazez.blogspot.com/2011/06/Ophelia Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08000353980872079468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-19575278273416968392011-06-07T12:20:28.248-05:002011-06-07T12:20:28.248-05:00You are wrong to assume I'm a goody two shoes ...You are wrong to assume I'm a goody two shoes who would never talk about the idiocy of religion. There is a time and a place and a way of doing that which is fine with me. I don't know that Rieux is a master of the fine art of mockery, and I don't know if Jeremy particularly did a marvelous job of it either, in that particular post. But one can do these things well. I actually thinkJean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06297159994901018071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-33200364804097307012011-06-07T11:57:51.371-05:002011-06-07T11:57:51.371-05:00Alright then - Ill leave with if it was Rieux who ...Alright then - Ill leave with if it was Rieux who stated something to the effect that religious people are morons and idiots and we should criticise them and not give them a platform to respond - would you reaction be the same as it was to jeremy's post (in effect that you dont take the words morons and idiots seriously and that yes there are times when engagement is pointless - youll note Deepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-50092538541984983192011-06-07T09:58:25.899-05:002011-06-07T09:58:25.899-05:00Deepak, No moderation, it just got lost (temporari...Deepak, No moderation, it just got lost (temporarily--now it's published). But I have no problem with the idea of censoring comments. That comment is all snark and insults, no substance. I'll get rid of the next one like that.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06297159994901018071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-66868385222747328522011-06-07T00:15:22.813-05:002011-06-07T00:15:22.813-05:00did I lose my post to the Internet gremlins or was...did I lose my post to the Internet gremlins or was I censored?<br />If the latter then may I know why?Deepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-85464497329851328132011-06-05T23:59:59.394-05:002011-06-05T23:59:59.394-05:00@Jean
There are definitely times when engagement i...@Jean<br /><i>There are definitely times when engagement is pointless. </i><br />Ah. that's a euphemism for don't give people a platform to respond. its irony really to support the above while saying how scorning into silence is so chilling.<br /><i>There are rules of etiquette </i><br />Uh yes - the same rules of etiquette would prevent you from calling the entire group "idiots&Deepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-67880762504959681182011-06-05T21:49:28.941-05:002011-06-05T21:49:28.941-05:00Deepak, I agreed with Jeremy's advice to Karla...Deepak, I agreed with Jeremy's advice to Karla, if that's what you're asking. There are definitely times when engagement is pointless. <br /><br />About logic. If you think all Republicans are idiots, and x is a Republican, than you have to believe x is an idiot.<br /><br />But two things--<br /><br />(1) When I say "Republicans are idiots" I typically don't mean it Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06297159994901018071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-21551392330641416662011-06-05T20:21:05.436-05:002011-06-05T20:21:05.436-05:00Hello Deepak:
Maybe I'm weird and if so, fin...Hello Deepak:<br /><br />Maybe I'm weird and if so, fine, but I am much more sensitive to insults directed at me, Amos, an individual than to those directed towards, say, white, straight, male, Jewish, atheists with leftist politics, words which classify me. <br /><br />However, as I write, I realize that anti-semitic insults affect me as much as those directed towards me as a s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-1839135560927146302011-06-05T16:50:02.976-05:002011-06-05T16:50:02.976-05:00What do you think about this--is it forbidden for ...<i>What do you think about this--is it forbidden for me to write a post where I call Republicans "idiots"? </i><br />Umm didn't I already state calling people Idiots if deserved(subjective) is fine with me?<br /><i>It's another thing if I am talking to you directly, know you're a Republican, and call you an "idiot"</i><br />Calling someone an idiot specifically is Deepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-78538661404901357242011-06-04T15:42:53.719-05:002011-06-04T15:42:53.719-05:00Huh? I think it was pretty obvious that I was sugg...Huh? I think it was pretty obvious that I was suggesting that if Ophelia and Amos wanted to talk to each other, they could do it via email.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06297159994901018071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-56594540213735624832011-06-04T14:16:07.763-05:002011-06-04T14:16:07.763-05:00There's always email. To talk about amos behin...There's always email. To talk about amos behind his back on your part; would that be the gist of it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-15420587165720183042011-06-04T11:54:00.177-05:002011-06-04T11:54:00.177-05:00Ophelia, I'm sorry, but that whole diatribe ha...Ophelia, I'm sorry, but that whole diatribe has no basis at all in fact, and I just don't want to waste my Saturday responding. I invite you to read my blog before making wild claims about what I write about. And can we also skip the Ophelia vs. Amos drama? There's always email.<br /><br />Deepak, What do you think about this--is it forbidden for me to write a post where I call Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06297159994901018071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-13131611845564341222011-06-04T11:38:23.171-05:002011-06-04T11:38:23.171-05:00Ophelia:
You broke the truce. I've never sin...Ophelia:<br /><br />You broke the truce. I've never singled you out or mentioned your name in an unfavorable way since the agreement.<br /><br />For the moment, why don't you take a deep breath and stop making a fool of yourself?s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-75769504708237025202011-06-04T11:28:28.528-05:002011-06-04T11:28:28.528-05:00If we abolished all incivility we'd have to ca...<i>If we abolished all incivility we'd have to cancel The Daily Show</i><br />All i can say is if Phil Plait wanted examples for his dont be a dick talk , he could have used some of Jeremy's posts. Calling someone idiots or morons? - acceptable to me when the offense is bad. <br />Stating that don't give these people a platform? - That's another form of attempt to silence - with aDeepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-33061319963430579602011-06-04T11:07:08.490-05:002011-06-04T11:07:08.490-05:00amos - why do you keep shoving yourself into these...amos - why do you keep shoving yourself into these discussions? It's got nothing to do with you, yet you keep popping up to offer your two cents worth.<br /><br />It was just a few months ago that you were moaning here about wishing there could be a truce but oh darn I would never agree to it - but on the contrary, I took you up on it. You were the one always sniping about me, not the other Ophelia Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08000353980872079468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-88210138165854646222011-06-04T10:52:45.452-05:002011-06-04T10:52:45.452-05:00Oh come on, Jean. Of course "When we decide w...Oh come on, Jean. Of course "When we decide what to blog about, we don't have to scour the web and find the Worst Thing." But let's be real: you do snipe at me often. (You then complain when I retort.) I am what one might call a Regular Target here - I think Jerry Coyne and I have pretty similar scores on the JK Target Tally.<br /><br />It's not obvious why I'm so Ophelia Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08000353980872079468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-53414747054752580162011-06-04T10:04:50.218-05:002011-06-04T10:04:50.218-05:00I don't know any "secular liberals" ...I don't know any "secular liberals" who "are eager to pretend that the worst bullying and majoritarian silencers are atheists". <br /><br />That's not you or me or Jeremy or even Chris Mooney.s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-6462289080320321462011-06-04T09:29:09.830-05:002011-06-04T09:29:09.830-05:00I don't see any point in comparing Jeremy'...I don't see any point in comparing Jeremy's incivility with the bullying of McLaren. They are just two different things, bringing up entirely different sets of issues. <br /><br />I might add--there's also no point in comparing the bullying of McLaren and the bullying of Damon Fowler (this relates to a B&W link to my little post here). When we decide what to blog about, we don&#Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06297159994901018071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-56511958151324623532011-06-04T08:58:37.710-05:002011-06-04T08:58:37.710-05:00One point in favor of Jeremy's incivility is t...One point in favor of Jeremy's incivility is that it isn't directed at any one person, not even at Rieux. It's generalized, a way of letting off steam, while often online a group targets one particular dissident poster and tries to scorn or scare him or her into silence or submission.s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-79058985339863457662011-06-04T06:41:45.382-05:002011-06-04T06:41:45.382-05:00Yes, he was uncivil. If we abolished all incivili...Yes, he was uncivil. If we abolished all incivility we'd have to cancel The Daily Show, and that wouldn't be good. It's a complex thing to decide which instances of incivility are "over the line" and which are just colorful and cathartic.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06297159994901018071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-68033921348551221132011-06-04T00:58:33.552-05:002011-06-04T00:58:33.552-05:00So
The stuff about "idiots" and "mo...So<br /><i>The stuff about "idiots" and "morons" -- honestly I didn't even take it seriously, and wasn't trying to endorse that.</i><br />if Jeremy has a valid point(not saying he does), he can throw in the morons and idiots to an entire group of people (he did use 'new atheist' and not people doing the scorning) and you will just pass it by - right?<br />Deepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-66731533830017417602011-06-04T00:31:31.904-05:002011-06-04T00:31:31.904-05:00I agree with his description of how people treated...I agree with his description of how people treated McLaren, and agree that Rieux's rationalization is chilling. Scorning people into silence definitely doesn't appeal to me. The stuff about "idiots" and "morons" -- honestly I didn't even take it seriously, and wasn't trying to endorse that.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06297159994901018071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-16811780680721613732011-06-03T23:29:47.105-05:002011-06-03T23:29:47.105-05:00So I take it you endorse Jeremy Stangroom's po...So I take it you endorse Jeremy Stangroom's post?Deepak Shettyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04324456947895848248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-92035585768582198902011-06-03T07:52:35.668-05:002011-06-03T07:52:35.668-05:00I was scorned into silence in Butteflies and Wheel...I was scorned into silence in Butteflies and Wheels, and being scorned in silence there, far from convincing me of the correctness of the arguments of the posters there, turned me against the New Atheism as a set of propositions (there is a difference between the New Atheism as a set of propositions and as a movment, as people), when my real criticism of the New Atheism is not of their s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.com