tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post2815138642259242558..comments2023-10-14T09:40:06.690-05:00Comments on Jean Kazez: Nooooo!Jean Kazezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-80572551693229165852010-06-30T10:43:09.556-05:002010-06-30T10:43:09.556-05:00I'm pretty firm on the non-psychological stanc...I'm pretty firm on the non-psychological stance on this one. The alternative means that someone can be humiliated, and not know it, someone can claim that they were not humiliated and be wrong about it... Maybe we just disagree on what humiliation is? I see it as a loss of one's pride. If I lose pride in myself I've been humbled or humiliated depending on the extent of loss. Waynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08627147979307495870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-6514493637444233492010-06-29T13:38:47.109-05:002010-06-29T13:38:47.109-05:00The simple answer is that the dead can't exist...The simple answer is that the dead can't exist, so you can't do good or bad things to them. The complex answer is that it isn't actually that simple--see Aristotle on benefiting/harming the dead!Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-14947970173285438482010-06-29T13:32:22.737-05:002010-06-29T13:32:22.737-05:00@ Jean: If you think humiliation can be non-psycho...@ Jean: If you think humiliation can be non-psychological then we can humiliate the dead no?Faustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-24172031464330427512010-06-29T10:52:47.779-05:002010-06-29T10:52:47.779-05:00If I may moderate just a bit--
I think the disput...If I may moderate just a bit--<br /><br />I think the dispute here is between people who think being humiliated is a subjective psychological state, a mental state that feels like something. Basically, being humiliated is identical to feeling humiliated. Then there are those who don't have such a "psychological" notion of what it is to be humiliated. Whichever view is most Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-23956568997423641022010-06-29T10:34:08.781-05:002010-06-29T10:34:08.781-05:00Is it a sign of disrespect to make your pet look l...Is it a sign of disrespect to make your pet look like a different animal? <br /><br />I mean lets face it, they're just really grooming their animals in a particular way. Its no less weird than giving a poodle a poodle cut, than to give a poodle a camel cut.<br /><br />I might have to go back on my humiliation argument... I think that maybe dogs can feel humiliation, but I don't think Waynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08627147979307495870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-67629742936937400362010-06-28T19:23:21.358-05:002010-06-28T19:23:21.358-05:00I think Mike's answer is pretty helpful to und...I think Mike's answer is pretty helpful to understanding why Mike is in fact wrong. <br /><br />Mike want's to assert the following:<br /><br />It is possible for someone to be humiliated without being aware of being humiliated. <br /><br />To illustrate this, he suggests that someone who is being laughed at, but who is not aware that they are being laughed at, is in fact being humiliatedFaustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-80448304014445260642010-06-28T18:22:48.589-05:002010-06-28T18:22:48.589-05:00Can the dead be humiliated?
There is no one there...<i>Can the dead be humiliated?</i><br /><br />There is no one there to be humiliated. I don't think you can humilate a piece of matter, though you can deprecate a piece of matter (a piece of art, for instance, can be caused to lose value). <br /><br />My point is simply that you do not need to be aware that you're being humilaited to be humiliated. This is what the grandmom case shows. IfMike Almeidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12001511002085064198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-91084446138414164202010-06-28T17:51:03.829-05:002010-06-28T17:51:03.829-05:00This reminds me of the discussion about whether th...This reminds me of the discussion about whether there's anything wrong with documentarians who invade animal burrows. <br /><br />http://kazez.blogspot.com/2010/05/do-animals-have-right-to-privacy.html<br /><br />Whether bad things can happen to the dead ... complicated question! There's a dog (in the pictures) for something to happen to, whether good or bad. It's tricky to say Jean Kazeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-79826284508077083632010-06-28T17:20:59.569-05:002010-06-28T17:20:59.569-05:00You're confusing feeling humiliated with being...You're confusing <i>feeling humiliated</i> with <i>being humiliated</i>. That's a little like confusing feeling smart with being smart. You can feel smart without being smart, and you can feel humiliated without being humiliated. You can feel humiliated, for instance, at all the people laughing at you, when in fact no one is laughing at all. Similarly, you can be smart without feeling Mike Almeidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12001511002085064198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-88081599687291984162010-06-28T17:10:37.909-05:002010-06-28T17:10:37.909-05:00Can the dead be humiliated?
If not, why not?Can the dead be humiliated?<br /><br />If not, why not?Faustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-30581616049733703402010-06-28T16:31:57.448-05:002010-06-28T16:31:57.448-05:00Mike- Hmm... I'm not sure if it is possible f...Mike- Hmm... I'm not sure if it is possible for the person to be humiliated without their knowledge. You can TRY to humiliate them. But humiliation is losing pride in oneself... a kind of intense version of being humbled.Waynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08627147979307495870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-34651769887903799282010-06-28T11:45:26.538-05:002010-06-28T11:45:26.538-05:00For pity's sake. And people think PETA's t...For pity's sake. And people think PETA's tactics are offensive? But this is cute??? Tell me who the fanatics are, please...and if this is sanity, I am glad I am insane.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10319551504917171165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-88425235944000784902010-06-28T10:16:18.962-05:002010-06-28T10:16:18.962-05:00Can dogs be humiliated?
Yes, they can. You seem t...<i>Can dogs be humiliated?</i><br /><br />Yes, they can. You seem to think that being aware that you're being humilated is a necessary condition of actually being humiliated. But that's false. You can be humiliated and be too thick or otherwise in no position to realize it. This is why I alluded to grandmom. She can be humiliated even when she is too far into her alzheimers to realize it.Mike Almeidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12001511002085064198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-66295275072759748492010-06-28T09:07:35.110-05:002010-06-28T09:07:35.110-05:00Can dogs be humiliated?
I understand that I might...Can dogs be humiliated?<br /><br />I understand that I might be humiliated, and most definitely was when my parents were buy my clothes. But might we be anthropomorphizing the dog a little much here? Can it feel pain? Sure. Have a sense of justice? We have evidence for that. But humiliation? <br /><br />For a dog to be humiliated, it would need to have an awareness of itself, and on top ofWaynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08627147979307495870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-52287213649261912862010-06-27T18:51:00.854-05:002010-06-27T18:51:00.854-05:00Another Noooooo! I think I'm going to post so...Another Noooooo! I think I'm going to post something about that tomorrow.Jean Kazeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-36702464727809480392010-06-27T17:31:52.363-05:002010-06-27T17:31:52.363-05:00Neither topiary nor animal care:
http://www.huffi...Neither topiary nor animal care:<br /><br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/24/japan-hopes-robot-baby-wi_n_624261.htmlFaustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-54344009792887460792010-06-27T11:05:10.921-05:002010-06-27T11:05:10.921-05:00At the very least, there's something wrong wit...At the very least, there's something wrong with the dog owners who are doing this. They seem not to understand the difference between a poodle and a plant. This is topiary, not animal care!Jean Kazeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-62261298431940439062010-06-27T10:13:48.803-05:002010-06-27T10:13:48.803-05:00However aware they are of what's happening, it...However aware they are of what's happening, it's pretty humilating. Right up there with dancing bears for diminishing a dignified animal.Mike Almeidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12001511002085064198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-64952588153558821182010-06-27T10:00:43.277-05:002010-06-27T10:00:43.277-05:00Are dogs self-aware enough to know whats being don...Are dogs self-aware enough to know whats being done to them?<br /><br />If not, then it seems like harmless fun. If so, then maybe the dog's own sense of aesthetics would be offended. <br /><br />I dunno... I think its less cruel than dressing them up in dog clothes.Waynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08627147979307495870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-71129583029520753022010-06-26T17:41:27.844-05:002010-06-26T17:41:27.844-05:00Thanks for that link. Unbelievable!Thanks for that link. Unbelievable!Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-63173570063644538092010-06-26T16:28:20.983-05:002010-06-26T16:28:20.983-05:00This article in the Daily Mail has similarly sadde...<a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1208913/The-poodles-transformed-pandas-horses-snails-creative-grooming-dog-shows.html" rel="nofollow">This article</a> in the Daily Mail has similarly saddening pictures of the most unhappy dogs pretending to be other animals...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-31807405790796118422010-06-26T16:10:23.912-05:002010-06-26T16:10:23.912-05:00They painted a dog, that's how they managed it...They painted a dog, that's how they managed it.Mike Almeidahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12001511002085064198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-65138210297773884132010-06-26T13:53:47.926-05:002010-06-26T13:53:47.926-05:00How the heck did they manage that!How the heck did they manage that!Faustnoreply@blogger.com