tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post7539062923600765005..comments2023-10-14T09:40:06.690-05:00Comments on Jean Kazez: Believing in UnbeliefJean Kazezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-81879762450253587372009-07-23T12:15:27.734-05:002009-07-23T12:15:27.734-05:00Certain fictional people are as real to me as real...Certain fictional people are as real to me as real people, that is, real people whom I only know from reading about them. Lear (Lear makes more of an impression on me than Hamlet) is as real to me as Obama; Marcel (Proust's character) is as real to me as Nicolas Sarkorzy; Raskolnikov is as real to me as Lenin. The thing is that I only know both Lenin and Raskolnikov from books. s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-7372733191655922042009-07-23T11:42:13.587-05:002009-07-23T11:42:13.587-05:00It can be read either way, but that's more due...It can be read either way, but that's more due to the fact that the play itself is called Hamlet. If the play was called "Time is out of joint" then the reference would be unambiguous. And, of course the reference can be tightened up to make the name "Hamlet" refer to the character and not the play, e.g. "Strange as though it may seem I find in Hamlet's speeches faustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-89450711457942866672009-07-23T08:13:27.449-05:002009-07-23T08:13:27.449-05:00Hmm...it seems nonliteral when you say that Hamlet...Hmm...it seems nonliteral when you say that Hamlet (the person) has influenced you. Isn't it really the play that's influenced you?<br /><br />I'm not really theologically tone-deaf...I respond to religious stuff, but just exactly in the way I respond to literature. The bible does speak to me, but in same way as the Iliad and the Odyssey.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-4687837660809780612009-07-22T11:22:58.152-05:002009-07-22T11:22:58.152-05:00Well here is the thing about stories...they really...Well here is the thing about stories...they really can have an impact on you. For example, I love the play "Hamlet." I've read it many times, seen all film versions, read scholarship on it. You could say Hamlet has influenced me...shaped my life. And yet "Hamlet" is just a fictional character. I don't expect Hamlet to DO anything for ME and yet it is not nonsense to Faustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-46293342157833315422009-07-22T11:07:06.139-05:002009-07-22T11:07:06.139-05:00OK, well I emphasized the "suppression of dou...OK, well I emphasized the "suppression of doubt" aspect because that's what Dennett finds so reprehensible, and because it's really quite absent from the atheist state of mind. Believing in belief also includes thinking there's positive value in the specifics of religious belief. The person who believes in belief doesn't believe in all beliefs (and all doubt suppressionJean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-38973442023406151982009-07-22T10:52:02.166-05:002009-07-22T10:52:02.166-05:00Johnston's book definitely goes the route of e...Johnston's book definitely goes the route of exploring God as an intentional object. Or rather, he spends a good deal of the book [bracketing] the question of God's final ontological status, and explores the phenomenology of God as he was experienced in the texts of monotheism.<br /><br />I think the book is quite readable and probably worth the read IF you are interested in natural Faustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-54472880283427918082009-07-22T10:49:02.429-05:002009-07-22T10:49:02.429-05:00Part of the problem is that Dennet's "bel...Part of the problem is that Dennet's "belief in belief" idea is a bit oversimplified here. "Suppression of doubt," only covers a small portion of the idea that Dennett is trying to get across. Certainly some people who believe in belief are trying to suppress doubts and are going for what basically amounts to "the power of positive thinking." Though in this case Faustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-15604097322277598692009-07-22T09:54:39.259-05:002009-07-22T09:54:39.259-05:00Whatever the merits of Karen Armstrong, a lot of ...Whatever the merits of Karen Armstrong, a lot of discussions about belief do get confused because the verb "believe" doesn't just have two separate meanings as I first affirmed, but a whole scale of nuances ranging from "I believe in God" (that he exists), through "I believe in God" (I trust in Him)to "I believe in rock and roll" (the lyrics of some s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-77350121739933587932009-07-22T09:17:14.636-05:002009-07-22T09:17:14.636-05:00Faust, Yes, back on "the mainland" as o...Faust, Yes, back on "the mainland" as one says when in Hawaii. We are acclimating. No more jaw-dropping beauty every day!<br /><br />I'm tempted to order the book. I wish they had a "look inside" at amazon. I want to know if it looks readable or painful. What's your assessment?<br /><br />Alright, so we have two meanings of "believe in belief/ubnbelief" oneJean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-86516432650313921032009-07-21T17:23:50.605-05:002009-07-21T17:23:50.605-05:00The phrase "believe in" can be used in t...The phrase "believe in" can be used in two ways, and I think that HE is playing on that, perhaps consciously, perhaps unconsciously. For example, the phrase "I believe in God" is very different than the phrase "I believe in Obama" or "I believe in my favorite soccer club". Now, the new atheists don't believe in unbelief in the sense that s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-48948996103972781932009-07-21T16:42:33.916-05:002009-07-21T16:42:33.916-05:00Welcome home?
"They don't reinforce unbe...Welcome home?<br /><br />"They don't reinforce unbelief in each other by stressing the virtue of unbelief."<br /><br />Well maybe not quite that way. What they do stress is more like the following:<br /><br />(P) You should not believe in anything for which you can not provide good evidence, or for which you cannot provide "good reasons."<br /><br />You mentioned in the Faustnoreply@blogger.com