tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post7430481746952933460..comments2023-10-14T09:40:06.690-05:00Comments on Jean Kazez: The Poll... and a Visit to GnufunlandJean Kazezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-45314344099586939922010-12-28T12:02:37.600-06:002010-12-28T12:02:37.600-06:00Faust, I'm also a fan of TGD and TEOF, but it...Faust, I'm also a fan of TGD and TEOF, but it could be that this sort of writing gets people in the door, and then other authors do the persuading. You read Dawkins because he's such a great writer, then want to read more atheist writers, and it's not really until you read someone else that you're persuaded. The someone else could be someone not affiliated with "new" Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-24758613475986747812010-12-28T11:12:06.999-06:002010-12-28T11:12:06.999-06:00Amos raises a good point, but I think perhaps it o...Amos raises a good point, but I think perhaps it overstates Bush and understates 9/11. Now that he mentions it, Harris explicitly calls out 9/11 as a motivator for writing The End of Faith. So Amos has a point here. <br /><br />To what degree was there a sense among the secular, subsequently codified and consolidated by activist atheists, that dangerous global religious conflict was a real and Faustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-41474518142833176682010-12-28T09:43:30.673-06:002010-12-28T09:43:30.673-06:00I never thought of that- yeah, the feeling in 2005...I never thought of that- yeah, the feeling in 2005 was that the worst sort of religious conservativism was being put in control of world affairs. That backdrop made the message in new atheist books very, very welcome to a lot of people. If you want to sell ideas, it helps a lot to have an enemy.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-48912235761642575712010-12-28T07:40:02.422-06:002010-12-28T07:40:02.422-06:00Another reason there may be more declared atheists...Another reason there may be more declared atheists today than six years ago is that six years ago Bushism, closely related to a simplistic religious view, was triumphant. <br /><br />In fact, the first New Atheist books more or less coincide with "Mission Accomplished" and with the so-called reelection of Bush 2 (he was really only elected once.)<br /><br />As the ship of Bush s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-75908773128713202692010-12-27T22:20:31.064-06:002010-12-27T22:20:31.064-06:00Faust, I agree about #1, but as to #2--even if the...Faust, I agree about #1, but as to #2--even if there are more non-believers, what's the evidence that that's due to new atheists like Dawkins? It could just as well be because of the scandal in the Catholic church, which makes religion look bad. Or because of Islamic extremism, which also makes religion look bad. Even if it is because of atheist writers, why give Dawkins the credit, and Jean Kazeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-61879237603307166382010-12-27T13:46:33.255-06:002010-12-27T13:46:33.255-06:00Faust:
Conversations, as you say, are good, an...Faust:<br /><br />Conversations, as you say, are good, and they are scarce: if I could converse with my neighbors, I'd not be talking to you in internet. <br /><br />The new atheists opened a conversation, such an interesting one that lots of people wanted to join in, Mooney, Jean, Rosenau, and others but just when the conversation got good, the new (or GNU) atheists got s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-4217102690597585602010-12-27T11:10:03.080-06:002010-12-27T11:10:03.080-06:00I think some very significant credit needs to be g...I think some very significant credit needs to be given to the initial wave of argument, especially "The End of Faith," and "The God Delusion," for changing up the conversation and "helping," by which I mean outputing net positive results. <br /><br />We can call these two books (and their attendent books and phenomena like Hitchens slaughtering people in live debatesFaustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-17873721825551217212010-12-27T09:55:09.375-06:002010-12-27T09:55:09.375-06:00In Chile it's the other way around.
I can ima...In Chile it's the other way around.<br /><br />I can imagine an atheist president, but not a vegetarian one. <br /><br />All of political and business socializing revolves around barbecues (asados), in which one who does not eat meat is considered "weird". <br /><br />What's more, politicians participate in an infinite number of ceremonial events, during which they have s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-8786681306179223442010-12-27T09:35:30.924-06:002010-12-27T09:35:30.924-06:00I'm not saying it's impossible for believe...I'm not saying it's impossible for believers to be good candidates--of course not. I'm saying you do wind up with worse candidates, on average, if skeptics are excluded, and religiosity is regarded as a plus. <br /><br />Sure, it's a bad thing if candidates can't be openly vegetarian, but open vegetarianism isn't as much of a problem as open atheism. Last time I was at Jean Kazeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-64241628622230017242010-12-27T08:39:24.235-06:002010-12-27T08:39:24.235-06:00It's a crime that atheist students
feel inhib...It's a crime that atheist students <br />feel inhibited about stating their views in a philosophy class. <br /><br />By the way, could a out of the closet vegan or vegetarian be elected President in the U.S. or in Chile? If not, why isn't that as tragic as the fact that an out of the closet atheist cannot?<br /><br />In fact, if I judge from his book, Dreams from My Father, s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-35396610381093745932010-12-27T08:28:34.000-06:002010-12-27T08:28:34.000-06:00It matters to me that atheist students sometimes f...It matters to me that atheist students sometimes feel like they can't openly say what they believe, even in a philosophy class. That's not good for them or for the intellectual health of the class. It also bothers me that atheist teenagers have to stay in the shadows, when other people are broadcasting their religious identity, and even saying insulting things about atheism. These aren&Jean Kazeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-8455355825951793552010-12-27T08:05:59.220-06:002010-12-27T08:05:59.220-06:00I agree that an atheist should be able to be elect...I agree that an atheist should be able to be elected to public office.<br /><br />In Chile they are, except that they call themselves, "agnostics", which goes over better.<br /><br /><br />The two previous presidents, Ricardo Lagos and Michelle Bachelet, were declared agnostics, although they may well have been atheists. <br /><br /><br />Yes, the world would be a better s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-1697025750637481482010-12-27T07:37:52.570-06:002010-12-27T07:37:52.570-06:00I don't think the "introvert" analog...I don't think the "introvert" analogy works so well. It makes sense that introverts can't do so well in politics--that's the logical outcome of having that character trait. But it's ludicrous that you should have to believe things about deities to do well in politics. It makes no sense whatever. I think it makes sense to resent that situation and try to do something Jean Kazeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-42093665294937973452010-12-27T05:38:00.018-06:002010-12-27T05:38:00.018-06:00As I was growing up, I was not aware that my fat...As I was growing up, I was not aware that my father, ostensibly a observant Jew, did not believe in God, as presented in standard Judaism. My father's reticience to talk about his inner convictions about religion may influence me in my rejection of making one's beliefs into a bumper sticker. <br /><br />We live in a "tell it all" culture, where people force you to s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-16362148875642164392010-12-26T20:51:14.450-06:002010-12-26T20:51:14.450-06:00Hi Amos, Happy holidays to you too. Thanks for th...Hi Amos, Happy holidays to you too. Thanks for the link. My link goes to Josh Rosenau's blog, where he does a rather nice job of responding to being sliced and diced by Jerry Coyne. <br /><br />I sometimes do think it's great for people to be more open about atheism. That's when I'm comparing openness with shamefulness--and yes, here in Dallas, Texas, atheism is sometimes Jean Kazeznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-75725975698457528802010-12-26T18:18:10.632-06:002010-12-26T18:18:10.632-06:00email follow-upemail follow-ups. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-84102617313682175542010-12-26T18:17:39.295-06:002010-12-26T18:17:39.295-06:00Happy holidays.
I stared at the link to the world...Happy holidays.<br /><br />I stared at the link to the world of the GNU atheists, but I didn't click. <br /><br />Perhaps this review, which you undoubtedly already read, signals a new paradigm.<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/books/review/Wolfe-t.html?_r=1&ref=review&pagewanted=all<br /><br />The new paradigm says as all new paradigms do that the world is more s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.com