tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post4801245790035155530..comments2023-10-14T09:40:06.690-05:00Comments on Jean Kazez: On Being Thought a LiarJean Kazezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-25145756395107173422010-07-12T21:53:41.194-05:002010-07-12T21:53:41.194-05:00Adam, Being either called or thought a liar is ver...Adam, Being either called or thought a liar is very unpleasant, but I agree there's something especially toxic about the word. Which is kind of mysterious. Even when someone has fulfilled all the conditions, there's some impropriety involved in using the word. You're only allowed to use it when someone is a total miscreant. Strange.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-29389636024203073012010-07-12T21:38:57.258-05:002010-07-12T21:38:57.258-05:00Considering this question, I can't help but th...Considering this question, I can't help but think back to 2004 when John Kerry was so careful to avoid saying that George W. Bush had lied. The Bush administration said a lot of things with obvious intent to deceive, but some of them were arguably not lies. That was apparently good enough for the American people in 2004.<br /><br />More broadly, I think we have something of an obsession with Adamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-44042159046625387672010-07-12T19:49:35.743-05:002010-07-12T19:49:35.743-05:00Also, I do like Benjamin Nelson's comment, ins...Also, I do like Benjamin Nelson's comment, insofar as the main topic is concerned.Faustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-73755949227034612502010-07-12T19:28:56.987-05:002010-07-12T19:28:56.987-05:00Well I don't think it's acceptable to call...Well I don't think it's acceptable to call you incompetent EITHER, but if they are flat out calling you liars, then I would say (stuff that can't be said on PG blogs).Faustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-23714758637431784832010-07-12T18:13:49.776-05:002010-07-12T18:13:49.776-05:00I was just looking at one of my old blog posts (De...I was just looking at one of my old blog posts (<a href="http://povcrystal.blogspot.com/2009/11/deceive-inveigle-obfuscate.html" rel="nofollow">Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate</a> about "mental reservation" - a kind of lying that leaves out important relevant information. It was in reference to the Irish bishops who lied about pedophile priests. <br /><br />One of those Harvard Justice crystalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05681674503952991492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-24713933492703903392010-07-12T17:38:03.828-05:002010-07-12T17:38:03.828-05:00Faust, Obviously, I need to turn off the computer....Faust, Obviously, I need to turn off the computer. At various blogs (that deserve no further attention) I am in fact being characterized as a liar, either verbatim, or in so many words. And this is being permitted by people who should know better.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-35511422174916323612010-07-12T14:34:22.345-05:002010-07-12T14:34:22.345-05:00As per my comments in the previous thread, I think...As per my comments in the previous thread, I think you were mostly being accused of being incompetent, as opposed to lying. <br /><br />To be accused of lying would be something like:<br /><br />"you have not seen the evidence you claim to have seen"<br /><br />OR<br /><br />"you are saying that the evidence indicates X when you KNOW that it does not in fact indicate X." <br /Faustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-84966664766476313522010-07-12T13:07:00.850-05:002010-07-12T13:07:00.850-05:00Isn't a "lie of of omission" actuall...Isn't a "lie of of omission" actually just a secret? Sure, sometimes keeping secrets is harmful. On the other hand, sometimes it's the right thing to do, like when a journalist is protecting a source.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-4998340651956307982010-07-12T13:01:09.311-05:002010-07-12T13:01:09.311-05:00There are lies of commission and lies of omission....There are lies of commission and lies of omission. The former are deemed much more deserving of moral censure and/or punishment. But the latter can be just as harmful.Athena Andreadishttp://www.starshipreckless.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-45460039024779348372010-07-12T12:32:40.229-05:002010-07-12T12:32:40.229-05:00Brandon, Great points, both helpful.Brandon, Great points, both helpful.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-62676267012066086112010-07-12T12:03:22.254-05:002010-07-12T12:03:22.254-05:00I think a great deal of it is that if you get mark...I think a great deal of it is that if you get marked as a liar, whatever you say can be simply dismissed. So being branded as such is actually a very severe penalty: it removes you from the community of people that even minimal respect requires anyone to listen to.<br /><br />The problematic thing is that people are very sloppy about what counts as lying. Even if one makes a claim that is Brandonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06698839146562734910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-20227282932004688032010-07-12T10:24:51.071-05:002010-07-12T10:24:51.071-05:00To be a liar is to betray, to do violence to a per...To be a liar is to betray, to do violence to a person's projects by breaking their trust. Betrayals are the lowest form of devilry because they exploit the weaknesses of innocence in order to perform wrongs.<br /><br />It's offensive to be thought a liar for the same reason that liars are offensive. To be thought a liar, when one has not broken trust, is to have violence done to your Benjamin S Nelsonhttp://hownottowinawar.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com