tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post4104760671395733890..comments2023-10-14T09:40:06.690-05:00Comments on Jean Kazez: PETA Kills Animals?Jean Kazezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-49396159246313595202008-10-26T22:46:00.000-05:002008-10-26T22:46:00.000-05:00All I can say is animals ARE equal to humans. Anyo...All I can say is animals ARE equal to humans. Anyone who doesn't think so is obviously the crazy one and should jump off a cliff.<BR/><BR/>Also, it's not good to hurt people. But I deem any "person" who hurts animals as less than human and deserving of severe punishment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-29313072114751240332008-10-06T09:00:00.000-05:002008-10-06T09:00:00.000-05:00Anonymous, The majority of PETA's positions can be...Anonymous, The majority of PETA's positions can be backed by facts and solid ethical arguments. Where they go too far (e.g. the Holocaust analogy) they do it mostly to attract attention. The fact is, the strategy works. They are probably the #1 most effective group in the US for publicizing the horrendous things we do to animals. Despite the extremes to which they sometimes go, I am a fan.Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-43569186509738549022008-10-05T19:09:00.000-05:002008-10-05T19:09:00.000-05:00PETA is absolutely INSANE. Do not support them. Th...PETA is absolutely INSANE. Do not support them. They are not like other animal rights groups.<BR/><BR/>Let's not focus on the animals that PETA kills.<BR/><BR/>These are some of the reasons PETA is screwed:<BR/><BR/>1. They are against people keeping animals as pets, people eating animals, and people using animals for medical/psychological testing. <BR/>And this isn't just an opinion. They are Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-34723893696801566522008-07-10T00:00:00.000-05:002008-07-10T00:00:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-56836076532610119862008-07-08T16:11:00.000-05:002008-07-08T16:11:00.000-05:00ETA Kills Animals -- And It's A FelonyAuthorities ...ETA Kills Animals -- And It's A Felony<BR/><BR/>Authorities in Ahoskie, North Carolina dropped a disturbing bombshell yesterday with the news that they had charged two employees of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) with 31 felony counts of animal cruelty. PETA's Andrew Cook and Adria Hinkle were arrested late Wednesday night after police saw them dump bags containing seven dead Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-16537866264712784862008-05-04T23:38:00.001-05:002008-05-04T23:38:00.001-05:00In reference to the term "abolitionist" that keeps...In reference to the term "abolitionist" that keeps popping up. Animals are definitely exploited in horrible ways and deserve way more respect by human society. However, comparing the exploitation of animals to the exploitation of African Americans as slaves does not seem equivalent in my mind and just seems plain old ignorant. Human slavery should be considered very very carefully if you are Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-394302279298196422008-05-04T23:38:00.000-05:002008-05-04T23:38:00.000-05:00In reference to the term "abolitionist" that keeps...In reference to the term "abolitionist" that keeps popping up. Animals are definitely exploited in horrible ways and deserve way more respect by human society. However, comparing the exploitation of animals to the exploitation of African Americans as slaves does not seem equivalent in my mind and just seems plain old ignorant. Human slavery should be considered very very carefully if you are Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-31467973970583556122008-03-20T20:00:00.000-05:002008-03-20T20:00:00.000-05:00http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAPO4xiyniI&feature...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAPO4xiyniI&feature=related<BR/><BR/>www.petakillsanimals.com - THIS SITE I SUPPORTED BY MEAT INDUSTRY/ FUR INDUSTRY ETC. - BY PEOPLE WHO HATE PETA <BR/><BR/>SOME ANIMALS HAVE TO BE PUT TO SLEEP BECAUSE of overpopulation of homeless dogs and cats <BR/>:/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-18650100331785956362007-09-09T14:51:00.000-05:002007-09-09T14:51:00.000-05:00I suppose it is worth asking what the point is of ...I suppose it is worth asking what the point is of sliming PETA in the first place? Is it really going to lead to an improvement in the lives of animals? Doubtful. Was the ad taken out by an organization hoping to fund no-kill shelters? <BR/><BR/>I suppose it is also worth asking what we're supposed to take from the fact that PETA has killed more animals than Vick. Does PETA lose the right toClayton Littlejohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596200828134402805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-78640784460789346892007-09-05T13:41:00.000-05:002007-09-05T13:41:00.000-05:00Even if instinctive, there's some sense that the a...Even if instinctive, there's some sense that the animal is heading toward the future, and that something is left incomplete if it doesn't get there. "Some sense"--definitely not very crisp!<BR/><BR/>I think my intuition is just the same--the more CNS sophistication, the better the reason needed to kill. And yes,it seems like a matter of respect for other minds. I like that way of putting it. IJean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-72102754606319904352007-09-05T13:22:00.000-05:002007-09-05T13:22:00.000-05:00I'm not impressed by any argument that suggests yo...I'm not impressed by any argument that suggests you can do a simple linear summation of (animal) happiness - down that road lies offsetting suffering by breeding large numbers of minimally happy organisms.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure that (most) animals are meaningfully future oriented - most of those future related behaviours seem to be instinctive rather than planned (I'm thinking things like pjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06832177812057826894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-31989383931576722192007-09-05T12:21:00.000-05:002007-09-05T12:21:00.000-05:00This issue is something I'm wrestling with these d...This issue is something I'm wrestling with these days.<BR/><BR/>Peter Singer's view about these things is my starting point. He says suffering is the more serious problem with factory farming. But the reasoning here is kind of tricky. Killing animals is definitely bad, in his view, because it prevents a set of future happy experiences. But, he says, we can fix that problem by breeding more Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-27332085084305832072007-09-05T11:38:00.000-05:002007-09-05T11:38:00.000-05:00Jean - I'm curious as to your rationale for saving...Jean - I'm curious as to your rationale for saving animal lives as opposed to minimising suffering. It is something I to have often wondered about, but I've tended to fall on the suffering side.<BR/><BR/>With the coverage/controversy the <A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6978384.stm" REL="nofollow">human/animal embryo cytoplasmic hybrid</A> story's been getting here I was reminded of howpjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06832177812057826894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-11564341487174334562007-09-04T11:54:00.000-05:002007-09-04T11:54:00.000-05:00Ideally, you'd convert every potential vegan and t...Ideally, you'd convert every potential vegan and thereby save a lot of animal lives. And after that you'd go to work on everybody else, and convert them to eating humanely raised animals. Thus, you'd save the maximum # of lives. And you'd also decrease suffering for the rest.<BR/><BR/>(But is it important to save animal lives... ? pj raises a good question, and I'm only 73% certain of my viewJean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-30174148705648549382007-09-04T10:54:00.000-05:002007-09-04T10:54:00.000-05:00Haven't read it all, but skimming through it looks...Haven't read it all, but skimming through it looks that my characterisation of Francione's position is pretty accurate - according to him no welfarist reform makes any tangible difference, it is "a concentration camp with a string band on the way to the gas chamber".<BR/><BR/>I think I have to disagree with him fundamentally, and that is at least part due to his rejection of Singer and Bentham's pjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06832177812057826894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-65823707903806361212007-09-03T19:45:00.000-05:002007-09-03T19:45:00.000-05:00I'm not familiar with the reference to socialism &...I'm not familiar with the reference to socialism — my preferred historical analogy involves the abolition of human chattel slavery in the American South.<BR/><BR/>In any case, Erik Marcus (arguing in favor of welfarism) and Gary Francione had a long debate on this subject. The debate was <A HREF="http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/2007/02/26/my-dinner-at-eriks-happy-meat-diner/" REL="Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-36065701335592137822007-09-03T15:29:00.000-05:002007-09-03T15:29:00.000-05:00It is a very seductive point of view - but I think...It is a very seductive point of view - but I think a rather more persuasive argument is that currently ever dollar spent on promoting abolitionism is a dollar wasted (I overstate only slightly) - because the vast majority of people will not accept that position.<BR/><BR/>So sure, if you think from a consequentialist view that concentrating on abolitionist arguments will bring about total pjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06832177812057826894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-33116650523697969932007-09-03T13:48:00.000-05:002007-09-03T13:48:00.000-05:00The degree of animal suffering under "humane" cond...The degree of animal suffering under "humane" conditions is somewhat of a red herring here. There are two points:<BR/><BR/>1) Every dollar and every hour that you spend on welfarist campaigns could instead be used to promote abolitionist goals.<BR/><BR/>2) When people feel <I>better</I> about eating animal products, they are less likely to give them up entirely. I get very frustrated when I Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-91713748329390558462007-09-03T13:03:00.000-05:002007-09-03T13:03:00.000-05:00Hmm, wasn't aware that tail docking and castration...Hmm, wasn't aware that tail docking and castration was routine in lamb raising - that isn't good. But of course humanely reared animals shouldn't be castrated or docked (I think it is in the organic standards somewhere). So that doesn't really support Francione's contention that "...those supposedly raised “humanely”—suffer as much as the dogs..."<BR/><BR/>I used the expression 'absolutist' pjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06832177812057826894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-41550810069788185472007-09-03T07:51:00.000-05:002007-09-03T07:51:00.000-05:00Lambs are often castrated and have their tails doc...Lambs are often castrated and have their tails docked (cut off) without anesthesia:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://vein.library.usyd.edu.au/links/Essays/2005/leeder.html" REL="nofollow">http://vein.library.usyd.edu.au/links/Essays/2005/leeder.html</A><BR/><BR/>There's also the practice of mulesing, which involves cutting the skin off a lamb's backside -- again, usually without anesthesia:<BR/><BR/><A Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-17328742640671729852007-09-03T07:15:00.000-05:002007-09-03T07:15:00.000-05:00I have to say that I have reservations about the r...I have to say that I have reservations about the reasoning of someone (Gary Francione) who says:<BR/><BR/>"The animals we eat—even those supposedly raised “humanely”—suffer as much as the dogs that are used in dog fighting."<BR/><BR/>Now I agree that we (society) suffer from a 'moral schizophrenia' (sic) when it comes to pets (and other cuddlies) versus livestock (or lab rats) - but I really pjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06832177812057826894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-76629170308510510882007-09-02T18:24:00.000-05:002007-09-02T18:24:00.000-05:00That's a very amusing article. He says:"When a bl...That's a very amusing article. He says:<BR/><BR/>"When a blog allows comments right below the writer's post, what you get is a bunch of interesting ideas, carefully constructed, followed by a long spew of noise, filth, and anonymous rubbish that nobody ... nobody ... would say out loud if they had to take ownership of their words."<BR/><BR/>!!!Jean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-35213830301029606442007-09-02T17:01:00.000-05:002007-09-02T17:01:00.000-05:00Some respected authorities think it's a bad idea t...Some respected authorities think it's a bad idea to enable comments on your blog:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/07/20.html" REL="nofollow">http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2007/07/20.html</A><BR/><BR/>Myself, I like 'em, but I can see the reasoning behind disallowing them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-88490829843982695282007-09-02T16:27:00.000-05:002007-09-02T16:27:00.000-05:00I think the environmental issues are really seriou...I think the environmental issues are really serious. <BR/><BR/>Re: Gary Francione's blog. I did have a look and put it on my blogroll, then changed my mind. It's certainly informative about the absolutist position, but there are no published comments. <BR/><BR/>I think somebody who comes out swinging against other animal activists on a blog (Singer & PETA are both too moderate for him) reallyJean Kazezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00592593002719828153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8310450667755637519.post-55471629864005898962007-09-02T15:01:00.000-05:002007-09-02T15:01:00.000-05:00Can't look at Gary Francione's blog at the moment ...Can't look at Gary Francione's blog at the moment (internet connection on the fritz) - Doug.E.Barr mentions deforestation and livestock, but of course we mustn't forget that it isn't just meat consumption driving this but industrial agricultural production as evidenced by the large scale deforestation driven by the need for soya. Admittedly this is mainly for cattle feed but then that is because pjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06832177812057826894noreply@blogger.com