The #1 theme of a sermon at a liberal Jewish temple is (I would say) self-improvement. The rabbi is someone who exhorts you to get your priorities straight, to live a better life. We are to change our focus. We care too much about material things and money-making. We ought to concentrate on our families and on what really matters. If any one theme comes up most often, it looks to me like it's the value of the sabbath--how we ought to slow down weekly, look inward, enjoy family and friends, turn off the computer. After that, there's the theme of caring for the world as a whole--we should do more for the poor, for the environment, about injustice.
Why does the rabbi get to exhort us all in this way? Who is he or she to say how we should live? Of course, the official answer is that the rabbi knows what God wants from us. But it's not actually crucial--we can believe that to varying degrees or even not at all. The God business establishes the practice of having wise people exhort others to live better lives, but what really sustains it, I suspect, is that people like being exhorted to live better lives. We (and I include myself here) like the periodic experience of being asked to assess how life is going, reconsider priorities, make resolutions, especially if the reassessment takes place in a beautiful setting, with evocative music, and so on.
At the atheist meetings I've been to a few times (as an invited speaker) there are some of the same elements--music, food, kids being educated, charity--but a noticeable absence of exhortation. Perhaps I haven't visited enough times to make a generalization, but nobody gets up and tells everyone else they're too materialistic, or that they spend too much time at the computer. Nobody tells everyone else to spend more time with friends and family, or reading, or experiencing nature. Maybe some topics in the program implicitly transmit that message. If a speaker talks about an environmental topic, attention gets shifted from shopping to the environment. But there isn't very much of the theme of self-evaluation and becoming better people.
There really couldn't be, because it's not easy for one person to get granted the exhorting role. That can transpire despite a fair amount of godlessness (as there is in a liberal Jewish congregation), but if everyone's godless, and adamantly so, it's hard to suppress the question "Why should you exhort us?" I suppose there could be godless preachers. Nietzsche wrote in a preaching style, literally commanding people to do this and do that. (See the Gay Science for what must be the world's best atheist sermonizing.) But it's hard to imagine a Nietzsche figure preaching at a freethought meeting. Exhortation to live a better life is "for them, not for us" ... I think that's pretty much the feeling.
I have no empirical evidence that it benefits people to be involved in holidays and rituals of self-examination, but I think it does benefit me, and I enjoy it!
The God business establishes the practice of having wise people exhort others to live better lives,
ReplyDeleteAnd where is wisdom an essential qualification of being a rabbi?
I have no empirical evidence that it benefits people to be involved in holidays and rituals of self-examination, but I think it does benefit me, and I enjoy it!
Im surprised , that you as an ethics professor , find any benefit in generic exhortations to do good , be charitable and so on.
My experience (from attending RCC masses with my wife) is that the priest exhorts people to be charitable , open their hearts for this worthy cause etc etc, and the people mechanically give the same dollar or two or five in the collections - which they would do even if there were no exhortations.
I find say a Peter Singer's book to be of far more benefit than if the same time was spent in a mass listening to a rabbi. I think you do too, isn't it?
Re wisdom as a qualification: If the congregation doesn't find you wise you don't get hired, or later you get fired--so there's a winnowing process. It's not a question of having a credential next to your name (WG--Wise Guy?)
ReplyDeleteExhortations to do good... Actually, I focused on exhortations to take stock, consider how you're life is going, reconsider priorities, etc. That seems like perfectly good advice, and yes, I do find it beneficial, despite teaching ethics (and in fact being the author of a book on the good life!). Why not?
My experience of exhortations to do good at my temple are apparently quite different from yours at mass. One exhortation for many years was to get involved in a Temple project that raised funds for refugee camps in Darfur (or Chad, to be precise). I "heard" the exhortation, so became chair of the project, and orchestrated efforts that raised about $70,000, as well as increasing awareness nationally and even internationally. This is not exactly throwing a dollar or two into the collection basket.
So yes--I think exhortations to do good can be effective. Of course, you have to choose the right setting. If I'd been born into an evangelical Christian family, I'd certainly not be sitting at the mega-church on Sundays listening to the exhortations.
If the congregation doesn't find you wise you don't get hired, or later you get fired
ReplyDeleteDemonstrably false. Since I know you read Coyne's blog/website , Im sure you have sufficient examples.
I don't really see your point. You're worried about how rabbis aren't credentialed for their wisdom. Of course not. I'm simply pointing out that there are other processes that narrow down who's doing the exhorting at a liberal synagogue. It's not a function of credentials but of other semi-democratic processes. This is just a fact--it's not really worth spending the afternoon arguing about it.
ReplyDeleteThis is just a fact--it's not really worth spending the afternoon arguing about it.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you could point out examples of rabbis being fired for not being wise (you could of course point out examples of people being fired for not choosing the party line but that's a different matter). The reason to argue it is because you are saying there is something inherent in the God business which causes "wise" people to be in positions of rabbi-Dom or priesthood. Thats very far removed from a "fact" (Even in liberal synagogues/churches)
As to the exhortations , I'm expressing surprise that YOU (an ethics professor ) would find it in any way convincing.
Deepak, From your last comment, I get the impression you may have misunderstood my post but let's drop it. I could see discussing rabbis with someone who's listened to a lot of rabbis, but I take it you haven't.
ReplyDeleteAs for ethicists who find rabbis convincing sometimes-- There are lots of Jews in philosophy and many of them are free of the sort of hostility toward religion you seem to have. If a rabbi says something convincing, you get convinced--it's as simple as that. Comedians can be convincing too, and novelists, and car mechanics. There's no reason to exclude rabbis from the list of "sometimes convincing people".
OK--onto other things. I don't have time to discuss this post any further.
" I "heard" the exhortation, so became chair of the project, and orchestrated efforts that raised about $70,000"
ReplyDeleteI don't think this is unusual. Churches organise a huge amount of charitable work and financial donations in the UK, and I have no reason to think that non-christian religious organisations are any more dilatory. This is, of course, a major embarrassment for the 'religion poisons everything' wing of the atheist movement and leads to a certain amount of cognitive dissonance which in turn, I think, generates hostility. Very often we hear that the charitable work/donations are unconnected to the religious organisation, for example, and would happen anyway, although the data does not seem to support this. I have also heard the 'argument' that religious believers only do good work because they expect a reward or fear punishment and so it doesn't really count. I think that is a reach at best, even ignoring the lack of evidence to back it up.
I think Deepak's comment is actually really interesting in a meta way. He's exemplifying perhaps why the atheist is less interested in exhortations from a rabbi. Its the general suspicion of religion as a whole from the atheist community. Its inherent in the God business that these religious leaders are unwise! A blanket stereotype that would rouse complaint if applied to almost any other profession.
ReplyDeleteAnd you don't see it just in Atheism vs. Theism. You see it everywhere. Democrats v. Republicans is just another prime example (which the Daily Show has been using at fantastic comedic effect... The finger pointing must stop!)
People are throwing the baby out with the bathwater in many cases. Its like people can't separate the idea of believing in a deity, with their ethical beliefs. Rabbis, Priests, Imams, they all have very similar ideas about morality, as the traditional liberal. But since they disagree on a few points like abortion or stem-cell research, which lots of people disagree about, they throw out everything they say, rather than just that particular belief.
Torquil, Chris Mooney has an interview with Phil Zuckerman on Point of Inquiry this week, and even Zuckerman--who very much wants to support non-religious people--says that religious people give more to charity (even setting aside their donations to churches). Interesting interview, and I'd like to see the details in Zuckerman's books. He doesn't say it's a simple matter of the fear of God being put into people--it's much more complicated than that. The sheer power of groups is part of it, I think--you would need a good sociologist to explain this well.
ReplyDeleteWayne, Right. I just can't get into that sort of suspiciousness. I'm happy to listen to exhortations from religious people--like Sister Prejean on the death penalty, or the liberal priests in Michael Moore's documentary Sicko, or rabbis who were very involved in the Darfur genocide issue. I don't see religious belief as tainting everything these people have to say. If I have an especially good feeling about liberal rabbis, its based on hearing lots and lots of them speak over the years. They tend to be smart, liberal people who can put together an interesting, sagacious, inspiring sermon. There's an art to that--and it doesn't hurt to recognize and admire it.
@Wayne
ReplyDeleteHe's exemplifying perhaps why the atheist is less interested in exhortations from a rabbi.
You and probably Jean too are interpreting my comment in a applies to everyone way - whereas I have twice emphasized "you" and "ethics professor" in my comment - which If I have to spell it out is that I find surprising that someone who deals with philosophy and ethics (hence questions like Which charity should I donate to given that I cannot donate to all , How much should I donate given that I will prioritise me/my families future over other charity and other far more interesting , challenging complicated questions) finds benefit in some generic exhortation to do good and help poor/deserving people.
Again not to say it doesn't happen - its that I find it surprising.
@torquil
ReplyDeleteThis is, of course, a major embarrassment for the 'religion poisons everything' wing of the atheist movement and leads to a certain amount of cognitive dissonance which in turn, I think, generates hostility.
Since I haven't made that argument - you'll have to try again.
Besides my label of choice is agnostic.
Deepak, You apparently have a lot of misconceptions about ethicists, if you think they can't benefit from exhortations of the sort I discussed in this post--simple exhortations about re-examining our priorities, focusing more on what really matters, etc. We are not talking here about a rabbi making controversial philosophical claims. We are not talking about blind obedience to whatever the rabbi says.
ReplyDeletePlenty of people in ethics are practicing members of one religion or another. One who comes to mind is the philosopher (& yes, she's an ethicist) Martha Nussbaum--author of many superb books in ethics, and an observant Jew. Go ahead and be surprised, but I think you need to learn more about both ethics and Judaism before claiming there's something problematic there.
simple exhortations about re-examining our priorities,
ReplyDeleteI'm expressing surprise that you need to be told this by a Rabbi.
Somehow you think that demonstrates hostile intent.
Plenty of people in ethics are practicing members of one religion or another.
Did I imply otherwise?
But are rabbi's more qualified (professionally) to discuss ethics (in general)- any more than say some conservative fundamentalist nut?
Deepak, Next thing I'll be in trouble for saying Jon Stewart convinced me to call the White House about some political issue. Oh no, I'm an ethicist, and I "needed" to be persuaded by a comedian! I think your attitude is manifestly silly and does "demonstrate hostile intent."
ReplyDeleteYes, I do think there are differences between religions, and by all means I think a reform rabbi is better trained to talk about ethics than "some conservative fundamentalist nut." The training these people get is completely different. In fact, one of the reasons why you get good sermons from liberal rabbis is because they draw from all sorts of sources--including contemporary philosophy.
Honestly, it sounds to me like you've never heard a rabbi give a sermon so there's just no point at all in this discussion. I am not going to learn about rabbis from you, and you (obviously) don't intend to learn anything about rabbis from me. So there is no real conversation here. Lets stop wasting time.
I think a reform rabbi is better trained to talk about ethics than "some conservative fundamentalist nut."
ReplyDeleteMy turn now. What non jewish sermons have you attended for you to make a comparative assessment?
Its true Im basing this on having attended RCC masses, Hindu pravachans and Sikh Kirtans as well as heard some Muslim namaz.
And perhaps I'm mistaken and liberal rabbis are indeed philosophy whizzes - but even then preaching to a general audience would have limitations.
Oh and you are right - A liberal who says Jon Stewart convinced him to vote for gay marriage would indeed surprise me.
You can hear "conservative fundamentalist nuts" on the radio or TV, but not liberal rabbis. So I do have familiarity with both, and you don't.
ReplyDeleteWho said anything about being convinced by Jon Stewart on the subject of gay marriage? You changed my example!
Conversation over now.